Saving Jesus

Jesus as wisdom (Week 6)

This from Sandra:

I've yet to start on Wisdom Tradition; I'm still trying to figure out how "God changes sides" in the parable of the Leaven (or Yeast); (Matthew 13:33)

Leaven appears to represent corruption, which can multiply and spread; the suggestion in this parable is that the leaven symbolises sin that corrupts and spreads;

in most of what I have read, great emphasis is placed on the woman in the parable; in all the other parables the main character is apparently a man;

after this I had a wee bit of a problem; the commentators were all reading from a different version of the Bible to GNB which we use; they spoke of how the woman "took" the leaven then "hid" in "three measures" of meal; this version can be found in the new King James Bible;

the fact that teh woman "hid" the leaven suggests that she is up to no good;
the reference to "three measures" is significant as most of teh Jews listening to Jesus would have recognised the three measures of meal as the meal offering in Leviticus and they would apparently have been gobsmacked that someone was suggesting putting leaven into a meal offering; this was a sin and it is suggested that a Jew listening to this parable would have immediately understood that something had been corrupted;

What do you think of this comment : "Jesus warns in this parable that false doctrines would be infused by stealth into the church, and these evil beliefs would corrupt, erode and destroy relationships. If the false doctrines are allowed to grow, affection and loving concern in service to one another are thwarted. The phrase "till all was leavened" is a sobering indication that the church would be plagued by insensitive, uncaring, self-absorbed, self-centred attitudes that would spread through the church just as leaven spreads through bread dough." !

none of the above makes any sense if you are reading the Good News Bible, I'm afraid because the reference "three meals" is clearly significant and simply stating that "some" yeast was taken doesn't have the same impact;

I still haven't figured out how God changed sides though !!!!

Incarnation (Week 5)

Nothing new here particularly but a great discussion yet again. And not a little laughter.

Hands up here who had a virgin birth because there seems to have been quite a few of them around. If you wanted to be someone you had to be born of a virgin or to somoene who was barren. Clearly I'm no one special then.

Mentioned the debunking of Christmas at the midweek service. So we won't be mentioning that again! Though most were up for and afternoon version of 'Saving Jesus'. It may not be quite so hardcore but looking forward to it after the summer.

So what sparked your imagination last night?

Jesus' World (Week 4)

So thought's on tonight? What was Jesus world like and would like to holiday there? Answers may help me here in Vancouver get some ideas flowing on the world of the parables and the wee things that are important to their understanding that we don't generally know, so get the wrong focus.

For example: about the Good Samaritan. It really isn't about the Good Samaritan (possibly) but about the guy who has been beaten having to receive care from an enemy (The Samaritan). Go and do likewise is Jesus asking his hearers to have the grace and the blessing to receive from your enemy instead of always think you're the one with the power to help someone else.

But I digress...

a continuing thought from week 1

'Lord' is imperial. The ancient world knew exactly what 'Lord' meant and you'd know the cost if you didn't get out the way in time. The Early church used the word ironically to describe Jesus, very anti-imperial. After 70AD however the church became more and more apocalyptic and understood the word literally and used the violence of empire as God's solution. Now all of us read the Gospel from an imperialist point of view.

Where have you seen examples of this and where would you start in writing a creed that was non-imperialist?

Jesus through the ages

I don't know where to start with this one. We thought about creeds and really ought to write our own one. We thought about original sin (but only briefly obviously) and wondered why. We thought about how all our theology comes from the church thinkers rather than Jesus and wondered what Jesus actually said. We wondered what on earth we are doing here. So jump in anyone. Tell us what you took from tonight, what warmed your soul, what affirmed you, what insight you had. That should be enough for now.